tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post1937365173401180570..comments2024-01-17T03:08:25.317-06:00Comments on The Progressive Catholic Voice: The Third Challenge: The Roles of Women in the ChurchPCV Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12519134580470262558noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-70828866780049783482011-12-14T09:27:55.263-06:002011-12-14T09:27:55.263-06:00The apostles were sacred because of who they serve...The apostles were sacred because of who they served, not because they were male.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-65065655552024976272010-09-11T17:46:37.377-05:002010-09-11T17:46:37.377-05:00I recently read a book entitled: "Gay Unions ...I recently read a book entitled: "Gay Unions in the Light of Scripture, Tradition and Reason" by The Rev. Canon Gray Temple. In the book, Fr. Temple wrote about how the Biblical authors did not have a concept of heterosexuality and homosexuality. Sexuality in the Bible was about the "stronger vs. the weaker" as women were regarded as property. <br /><br />When Jesus came as the Word made Flesh, Jesus among the things that Jesus challenged was the concept of the stronger dominating the weaker, and seeking to make all people equal and servants with each other. <br /><br />I also wrote that even the Virgin Birth is given a new understanding, because when Jesus was conceived it had nothing to do with the idea of being conceived without the intervention of a man. It was a message that all individuals born through Baptism are in fact born of God. Not of the flesh, not of blood,but of God.<br /><br />St. Mary was the first female Priest, because she offered herself in the service of God and others, and offered her Son on the Altar of the Cross. There is no reason that women or men cannot serve with their sisters and brothers as Priests.Br. Anselm Philip King-Lowe, OSBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02153443604460189234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-86158285396858449072010-09-11T08:17:36.513-05:002010-09-11T08:17:36.513-05:00Well , there is indeed good evidence that women ha...Well , there is indeed good evidence that women have served the Church in all sorts of ways, from the early deaconesses and the female leaders of house churches (who would have presided at the memorial meal in their own house) to the fabled abbesses of the middle ages who seem to have held many of the roles now supposedly reserved to ordained clergy. However, what I think we can say is that once the "sacrament of orders" becomes sedimented into the deacon/priest/bishop model that we know today, these offices are reserved to men. So I suppose all one can say with any accuracy is that liturgical leadership has been reserved to men since the time when liturgical leadership was first reserved to men. It's an unbroken tradition since it became an unbroken tradition.<br />I'd also add that in my view even if one accepted the official position that women never led liturgy in the early Church that would have precisely nil significance when it came to asking how ministry should be imagined today.Paul Lakelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04737832341714274782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-31932495980376318362010-09-10T17:20:58.305-05:002010-09-10T17:20:58.305-05:00I invite people to check out the book: Gay Unions ...I invite people to check out the book: <a href="http://www.churchpublishing.org/products/index.cfm?fuseaction=productDetail&productID=326" rel="nofollow">Gay Unions in Light of Scripture, Tradition and Reason</a> by the Rev. Canon Gray Temple. In the Book Fr. Temple talks about how the Biblical writers did not have the concept of heterosexual and homosexual. Instead the authors know of sexuality as a "stronger vs. weaker" concept. It was a demonstration of power and control.<br /><br />Even the Virgin Birth takes on a new meaning, to show that all who are reborn in Baptism are Born of God, not of water, blood, but of God. <br /><br />St. Mary the Virgin, is the first female Priest who offers herself in service with others both male and female, and she offered up the gift of her Son on the altar of the Cross. Both women and men are perfectly capable to share in the ministry of Priesthood.Br. Anselm Philip King-Lowe, OSBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02153443604460189234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-61525477847795377632010-09-10T12:45:09.609-05:002010-09-10T12:45:09.609-05:00what irks me most is that the right wing Catholic ...what irks me most is that the right wing Catholic now looks smugly at me when this discussion comes up and says, "we really wish we could ordain women, as does the Pope, but he of course tells us he doesn't have the authority." So sad, too bad. Yeah right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-12777266476051533812010-09-10T09:11:07.620-05:002010-09-10T09:11:07.620-05:00P.S. Rosemary Radford Ruether has a great article...P.S. Rosemary Radford Ruether has a great article on the ordination of women in the recent NCR. It is linked in the column to the right, second on the list of news links.Paulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00135199120788030871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-84440925166061833942010-09-09T18:40:21.525-05:002010-09-09T18:40:21.525-05:00Excellent post here, Paula. If I may insert somet...Excellent post here, Paula. If I may insert somethings I have learned from a recent book I have read called: "Gay Unions In Light of Scripture, Tradition, and Reason" by <a href="http://day1.org/259-the_rev_canon_gray_temple_jr" rel="nofollow">Rev. Canon Gray Temple</a> who was Rector of St. Patrick's Episcopal Church in Dunwoody, Georgia.<br /><br />The Biblical writers actually had no concept of what we call heterosexuality or homosexuality. Sexuality was understood as a stronger vs weaker. The Biblical writers of the Old Testament had a concept of women as property, as the weaker of species and they were to be bought and sold as the property of men.<br /><br />When Jesus came, among the many things he did, he changed the concept of domination vs. submission. Jesus constantly avoided those who tried to dominate him.<br /><br />Even the Virgin Birth has an entirely different context to it other than Jesus was conceived without the help of a man. When looked at in the context of John's Gospel "To all who received Jesus, who believed in Jesus' name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of human beings, but of God." (John 1: 12,13). The point of the Virgin Birth was to show that all can be reborn in God through Jesus the Christ. <br /><br />When Jesus was born through the womb of Mary, Jesus raised the vocation of womanhood from being subjective to men, to becoming partners with God. When Mary sings her Magnificat in Luke 1: 48-55 she sings about how the "mighty have been thrown from their thrones, and that the lowly have been raised up." How "God has filled the hungry with good things and the rich have been sent away empty." What is meant here? That God has shifted the power of those who once dominated others, to becoming servants with one another, including women. <br /><br />Mary is considered the first disciple, because she followed Jesus who had begun the work of restoring the dignity of women, and those who were marginalized by society. Mary is also the first female Priest. Mary offered herself in service with God and others, while also offering up Jesus as he hung on the cross for the sins of humankind. <br /><br />The whole Church needs to be open to the Holy Spirit so that she may "guide us into all truth" (Jn 16:13). We are not totally there yet. No Church is. <br /><br />Peace upon all.Br. Anselm Philip King-Lowe, OSBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02153443604460189234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-91954529602411346242010-09-09T16:59:22.509-05:002010-09-09T16:59:22.509-05:00Chuck Pilon called me citing a problem with this s...Chuck Pilon called me citing a problem with this sentence in Paul's Chapter 2 at pages 75-76: "Those who desire to ordain women cannot simply thumb their noses at the fact that this has never been the practice of the Church." We'll have to ask Paul about that sentence. We are hearing that there is evidence that women were accepted in all roles that existed in the early Church's liturgical life. Dorothy Irvin will comment further about this early next week. Does anyone else have research on this question? We'll go with the recommendation not to thumb our noses, however.Paulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00135199120788030871noreply@blogger.com