tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post2219786444587556385..comments2024-01-17T03:08:25.317-06:00Comments on The Progressive Catholic Voice: Still Dialoguing with the Archbishop: The Catechism?PCV Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12519134580470262558noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-65750299596794683592015-02-09T13:58:19.237-06:002015-02-09T13:58:19.237-06:00Hi, John. Kind of bitter? I take it you have no ...Hi, John. Kind of bitter? I take it you have no time for the Adult Catechism of the Catholic Church. I didn't mean to raise the question of infallibility. Maybe someone else does find it valuable for some purposes. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14129355364950004548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-87425301555488180902015-02-09T13:47:56.092-06:002015-02-09T13:47:56.092-06:00Hi, Anonymous. I do not know the history. I'...Hi, Anonymous. I do not know the history. I'll have to read up. Do you agree that it is valuable to have a written explanatory document for reference purposes? I don't think we are talking about its being infallible, just a rundown of the current teachingAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14129355364950004548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-88187138511243226342015-02-06T07:07:33.281-06:002015-02-06T07:07:33.281-06:00King Louie and Antoinette lost their heads to the ...King Louie and Antoinette lost their heads to the guillotine <br />when the French monarchy fell. <br />The Roman Church <br />which had been hand in glove with the King since the 1400's<br /> was also tossed out; <br />a citizens religion replaced monarchical Rome <br />and the people wrote a people's catechism. <br />Imperial Rome responded, <br />refuting the religiously human concepts of the revolutionaries. <br /><br />This Roman Catechism was to be read by ordained priests only,<br />the beginning of a human tragedy.<br /><br />Time passed and American Bishop, John Carroll,<br />who hoped to create a religious atmosphere <br /> in tune with the new American way of life,<br /> commissioned his secretary-priest to write<br /> an American Catechism. <br /><br />(The Dutch wrote their own catechism shortly after Vatican Two <br />which JPII and the Curia threw out.) <br /><br />The American Catechism <br />was to be ready by the opening of the Catholic Council of Baltimore in 1852. <br />Carroll enjoyed a healthy relationship to the American founding Fathers, <br />having gone with Ben Franklin <br />in the failed effort to encourage Canadians to join <br />the new revolutionary American Cause. <br /><br />Carroll wanted Rome <br />to allow American Catholics to choose their own bishops <br />so as to avoid monarchial appointments. <br />The Vatican did not take Bishop Carroll's request <br />and the American Catechism<br />seriously <br />so that Carroll was offered an English translation <br />of Rome's anti-revolutionist catechism.<br /><br />The BALTIMORE CATECHISM,<br />Rome’s, anti-revolutionist catechism,<br />intended for ordained priests only,<br />as a counter to the People’s Catechism of the French Revolution, <br />would become standard fair in America,<br />mis-educating millions upon millions of Catholic school kids,<br /> its contents "missing the mark" <br />(sinful, as in the original meaning of the medieval archer's term <br />to miss the target). <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />In this Baltimore Catechism,<br />Jesus is missing, <br />His way nowhere to be found. <br /><br /><br />The teaching position of Rome had begun to decline in 1852. <br />The fracture burst <br />in the publication of Pope Paul's birth control fiasco, Humanae Vitae in 1968; <br />the floodgates of healthy education were open. <br /><br />The American bishops fled the First Vatican Council<br /> witnessing the confusion and rejection of the dogma of infallibility <br />by the world outside of Rome. <br /><br />The Vatican I setting was a medieval Roman Church that was falling apart <br />and a pope under siege who was loosing his kingdom, <br />the Papal States. <br /><br />Pius the Ninth sent out feelers <br />for safe refuge in various countries, even the U.S.A.. <br />Pius needed to shore up his world reputation. <br />He convinced Catholics <br />that he was head of a universal nation-church <br />of which he was the corporate head, <br />thus having the right to assemble the Catholic bishops in 1864.<br /><br /> The First Vatican Council got underway in 1868 <br />in the midst of total European confusion and political chaos. <br />Garibaldi is at the gates of Rome <br />and the Papal States will soon become what we call today Italy.<br /><br />Pius threatened excommunication of any bishop <br />who will not sign on to the Dogma of Infallibility.<br /> Pius needed universal agreement to ratify a church promulgation. <br /><br />In the meantime seven or more of the American bishops, <br />avoiding the vote high tailed it out of Genoa <br />on a steamship bound for the U.S.<br /><br />Such would make a great escape movie <br />as the Curia tracked down all but one, <br />obtaining their consent "a longe"<br />(at the end of a rope.)<br />They never found the Midwest bishop; was he from Iowa? <br /><br /><br /><br />Technically, Pius the Ninth's attempt to create a super human brain <br />dropped into the chaotic abyss, "close but no cigar".<br /><br />Yet Rome continued to promote infallibility <br />as if it was sacred doctrine. <br /><br />Pius the 12th would use it once with the Assumption of Mary in 1950.<br /><br /> In the times of John Paul II and Benedict XVI <br />feeble attempts were made to pull the wool over the public eye <br />by saying pronouncements on women's ordination and clerical celibacy <br />were infallible. <br />The world was not fooled. <br /><br />When John the 23rd was reminded by a Vatican official<br /> that he was infallible <br />John replied simply <br />"so they say".<br />John Chuchmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15078522877428634122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-38437534635774736912015-02-06T07:04:22.622-06:002015-02-06T07:04:22.622-06:00The Catechism of the Catholic Church is not an inf...The Catechism of the Catholic Church is not an infallible document, never has been.<br /><br />John Chuchmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15078522877428634122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-50230032229986274032015-02-04T13:26:33.063-06:002015-02-04T13:26:33.063-06:00I share your hesitation about the catechism. Some...I share your hesitation about the catechism. Somehow it seems to be appeasing to those who long for a more fundamentalist approach to Catholicism. Perhaps, I too, have a bias. How did the catechism (as in the most recent one) result from Second Vatican Council? I thought it came out of JPII's Extraordinary Synod of the Bishops in 1985.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com