tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post4459380779977863037..comments2024-01-17T03:08:25.317-06:00Comments on The Progressive Catholic Voice: How Church Shopping is Polarizing the CountryPCV Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12519134580470262558noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-46272704451061159802010-06-06T17:01:46.601-05:002010-06-06T17:01:46.601-05:00And I forgot: Nowadays Portugal is 90% of populati...And I forgot: Nowadays Portugal is 90% of population Roman Catholic baptised, now, more or less 20% of population attending the church weekly.<br /><br />Excuse me to be so long and my English mistakes! I'm not a native English speaker!...<br /><br />Good Evening!...Pensamento Positivohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15966734551651698758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-18913501214800204532010-06-06T16:55:18.182-05:002010-06-06T16:55:18.182-05:00Hi, cestusdei. I will tell you the things here in ...Hi, cestusdei. I will tell you the things here in Portugal, a very conservative counthry in the south of Europe.<br />I live between 2 Dioceses, Lisbon, the capital and Santarém, a small, rural, 100 parishes diocese 120Km distance from the capital.<br /><br />Here in the capital most of the pastoral service is now done by African Priests, just becouse the Church has no Portuguese Priests in the proper number to serve the communities in charge... Large amount of people are absolutely racist and abandoned the Church, incredibly, just because the Priest is black!... Last 10 years the number of boys in seminaries is decreasing fast. Currently we have only more or less 30 students in the minor seminar (the first 2 years of the degree) from 6 different dioceses and Africans too. Average clergy age is 72 years old. Some are ill and continue their minister just because they have no replacement. Some parishes have medium groups of children, youth and young adults, but only the open minded ones with a modern methodology of teaching and worship and one or another from the charismatic or radical tridentine view, absorving people from all the city who agree with the "flavour" of faith porposed in each parish and not from the traditional local area. Average age of attendees is more or less 75 years old and with a small number of children or young people in the majority of parishes.<br /><br />In the small village things are even worse. Last 10 years only 4 boys entered the seminar. 2 of them abandoned in the end of the first year. The last ordination in this conservative diocese was for one of my best friends and other 3 colleagues (1 of them to the Jesuit missions) 9 years ago!... Next expected ordinations will be in 2015 for these 2 seminarists if they remain and pass all they exams... Average clergy age is 76, with no replacement possible with the Africans just because population is extremely racist. Some Italians are well succeed helping the diocese, but even Spanish or Priests from another counthries are not very welcomed. Only people with more than 60 years attend Mass weekly.<br /><br />I used to be a conservative Catholic like you, cestusdei, but I realise, in these conditions there is no future to our Church. We have to do something, certainly, but radicalism is not an answer!...<br /><br />Good evening!Pensamento Positivohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15966734551651698758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-38851042266317624452010-06-02T21:54:21.959-05:002010-06-02T21:54:21.959-05:00Dear Cestus Dei. Interesting name you use. Does ...Dear Cestus Dei. Interesting name you use. Does it have some theological import for you? I'd like to hear about it. I think I know the kind of shallow, amoral person you are talking about, and I wish you wouldn't classify all of us who call ourselves "progressive" with that person. I identify with the idea of progressive but I go to Mass on Sunday and I would not kill my unborn child. When some other activity seems momentarily more attractive to me than going to church I can think about it and decide that I will go because I love God. The community of believers I join at Mass is always inspiring by the fact of their being there. We enter into the mystery together and the reign of God is revealed. You and I could be worshipping side by side--you calling yourself a traditionalist, me calling myself a progressive,, and the question is can we see ourselves as brother and sister in Christ?<br />Wasn't the point of the article we are commenting on that both superficial traditionalists and superficial progressives become isolated in their own ideologies? I am taking "the middle" that has dropped out to be lovers of tradition who are openminded, i.e. people who are both traditionalist and progressive at the same time. What do you think the "middle" means?Paulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00135199120788030871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-20307800413207174822010-06-02T12:28:19.576-05:002010-06-02T12:28:19.576-05:00This is fascinating! I left the Catholic Church 1...This is fascinating! I left the Catholic Church 13 years ago for the more "modernist" ELCA. People don't "get" that I am socially liberal and a Christian. It's sad that we have gotten to a place where people think that's odd. God is not Republican or Democrat, so the fact that political beliefs and religious beliefs are so closely intertwined is interesting to me.Erin_Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08291043990334247624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-876502085465766394.post-63241168768745632962010-06-01T17:53:36.624-05:002010-06-01T17:53:36.624-05:00Let me comment from the Traditionalist point of vi...Let me comment from the Traditionalist point of view. Rodney Stark has done some excellent work showing how religions that demand sacrifice grow and those that demand nothing decline. If you are a modernist who doesn't believe in transcendental things, like hell, then getting up on Sunday morning is not a priority. It might be nice to do it, but I don't owe God anything is how they think. Their religion has no real effect on their life hence they kill their unborn child without a qualm. They are practical atheists with a patina of Catholic culture. So of course they have little to say and no desire to hear. They think all is well. A traditionalist actually believes in the Catholic faith. It makes a difference in daily life. I want to go to Mass, but I owe God due worship so I go even if I don't feel like it. I don't kill my unborn child as it is a mortal sin and morally evil. So who in the end is going to win in the Catholic Church? We already see it is NOT the so-called "progressives." You have been all to successful with many young people who now feel no sense of Catholic faith or identity. Those of us who remain have no desire to follow you down the wide path that heads down. In the end it is the John Paul and Benedict Catholics who will remain and begin to rebuild from the desolation left by the modernists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com